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James Hibberd



HD DVD: Fight or Quit (Preferably Quit)

August 2, 2007 10:37 AM

Let’s take a moment to push for the end of the pointless war that nobody wanted; the costly quagmire that’s drained resources and consumed the media with its constant, bloody scrimmages.

In the past few weeks, Sony’s Blu-ray next-generation DVD format has enjoyed several victories over Toshiba’s rival HD DVD: Target will sell only Blu-ray players this holiday season. The East Coast chain BJ’s Warehouse Club will exclusively sell Blu-ray titles. Steven Spielberg announced he will release his first movie in a high-def format, “Close Encounters of the Third Kind,” on Blu-ray. The Japanese porn industry has embraced Blu-ray. Even thieves robbing a Seattle store cleaned out its stock of Blu-ray discs, leaving HD DVD titles behind (how sad, chortle the bloggers, HD DVD movies are not even worth stealing).

Coming shortly after Blockbuster’s announcement that the chain will mainly stock Blu-ray titles, the headlines paint a portrait of pending HD DVD doom. All that's left is a period of Toshiba desperately hanging on. The face-saving final efforts. The company’s fingers slipping from the edge of the format-war cliff and blissfully falling into Betamax oblivion.

Trouble is, rooting for a Sony win feels like cheering for a fighter throwing low blows when the referee’s not looking. Sony stuffed 4 million overpriced PlayStation 3 units with similarly overpriced Blu-ray players and leveraged its relationship with studios to monopolize distribution of key DVD titles.

Just as important, but little noticed, is that Sony has been wildly effective at generating headlines declaring Blu-ray victories—even when the triumphs are modest. BJ’s Warehouse Club? Japanese porn? “Close Encounters”? Minor accomplishments that are killing HD DVD. When consumers think Blu-ray has won, it has.

This isn’t to say Blu-ray isn’t winning in less superficial respects. See this big brick wall of blue? That’s how often Blu-ray titles topped HD DVD in a variety of sales categories on Amazon.com. The week of July 22, Blu-ray captured 74 percent of high-def disc sales to HD DVD’s 26 percent, according to Nielsen VideoScan. Not good.

Toshiba has sold more stand-alone players, mainly because Blu-ray players cost $999 earlier this year and are still currently overpriced at $479. HD DVD players have dived to $243, and Xbox 360’s add-on HD-DVD units now sell for $179. Many consumers are snapping up Toshiba’s reasonably priced high-def player to accompany their new HDTV set without realizing the carnage-filled battlefield they’re stumbling onto.

“Every time Sony pulls a press prank, HD DVD counters with a price drop,” smartly notes one of many HD DVD fans on AVS Forum. But Toshiba is nearing the bottom for DVD player pricing, while Sony has a long way to go.

Recently a research company predicted the high-def format battle will continue well into 2012, with both sides evenly splitting the market. This nightmarish conclusion ignores the real sentiment driving the war’s end game: Studios don’t want two formats. Retailers don’t want two formats. Consumers don’t want two formats.

And when studios almost entirely align under Blu-ray, retailers begin exclusively stocking Blu-ray products, customers prefer Blu-ray titles, and the press writes stories of Blu-ray victories … then HD DVD really is wasting time hanging on the cliff’s edge.

Toshiba needs to start generating some victory-lap “press prank” headlines of their own—or let go.

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Comments (47)

JackBauer:

How about let the consumer decide? They clearly are since HD DVD stand alones are selling better than Blu-Ray players.

Chris:

One thing about the Nielsen VideoScan numbers is they included free movies that customers didn’t actually pay for. For example, when PS3 went down to $499, Amazon was including a copy of Resident Evil Blu-ray. In fact, because of this, Resident Evil made the top 10 in sales! The Nielsen VideoScan numbers for that week were spiked by the PS3 going down in price too. The weeks before that showed HD DVD closing the gap, getting closer to a 60/40 market.

HD DVD is doing just fine. Standalone HD DVD players are selling better than Blu-ray players, Microsoft just lowered the price on the Xbox drive and they are sold out everywhere and come this October, the new Blu-ray spec will require that all players include an extra chip for Picture in Picture capability (something that is standard in all HD DVD players already). Most Blu-ray players don’t have this chip and are not upgradable. Yes, that $1000 Blu-ray player you bought just last year (or the $500 player you can buy right now) will not be capable of the advanced PiP features when they start coming out.

ZapVegas:

Uh Oh, some chain of East Coast warehouse store is only carrying BR? Well shit! I guess that the 90,000 Wal-Mart stores won't matter any more! And Target isn't BR exclusive, even for the holidays: SORRY has simply PAID for end cap space for their BR players.
If you think BR is over-priced now, just wait until they have to MEET the specs ov ALL HD-DVD players after October 1st. It's pretty rare that the longer something is available the higher the price goes, but that's just what you'll see from BR.

Wait and see. Meanwhile I'll watch 300 on my HD DVD player and see exactly "How they did that!".

Greg:

Even though Microsoft isn't as involved as Sony, at least it is an American Company.

Why Americans are so quick to give their money to Sony and Japan is beyond me.

It seems to me that some of the younger generations of Americans are happy with this format war and want Sony to win. All while they complain about not having the money to buy the stuff and wait for the price to come down. Just wait, you will begin to have less and less money because you are filling the Japanese pockets. Toshiba is selling a great machine at a great price.

I am not complaining about one culture or race, only why Americans don't bitch at Disney and the other studios and other American companies....Blockbuster, Target, BJ's etc. and say....why are you forcing us to use a product like Blu ray when their are alternatives that are less expensive and great quality. I realize Toshiba is not an American company, but their revenues are dispersed though more American supply chains not just Sony, Sony, Sony. They are killing American jobs.

Now mind you I don't really care. I have owed and American business for 21 years, I have made my millions. You youngsters (and poor older Americans) who support foreign manufacturing may regret your decision one day. A pair of Levi's cost 19.95 in the 80's when I was a kid and they were made in America. When manufacturing was closed in American and went foreign they are double or more. We either pay or do without.

Why does Sony want full control? So they can charge you whatever they want. If Toshiba wasn't in the picture, Sony would be laughing to the bank more than they already are.

He with the gold makes the rules. When foreigners make everything you want, you either do without or pay their prices.

Buy American and save an Americans from poverty.

Blu J:

Jackbauer, the customer is deciding, and they are choosing Blu-ray. HD STANDALONE players are selling better, they are dirt cheap. However, when you factor in PS3s it blows HD sales out of the water. I know it's a game system but guess what, it plays Blu-Rays too making it a Blu-Ray player (and a darn fine one at that).
Chris, HD have run the "get X amount free HD-DVDs with purchase of player" promo quite a few times now, and Blu-Rays still beat them out in sales week after week, month after month. The "Since Inception" numbers place Blu-Ray retaining 60% of all HiDef sales leaving of course 40% to HD-DVD. This gap has only ever been widening in favor of Blu-ray since inception. There has been no gap closing except for a week here or a week there. True, Blu cannot yet do the PiP. However, like you said, come Oct. it will be mandatory that all players made after that date be capable of handling such a feature. True that most first gen players will not be able to be upgraded to handle the PiP, however some do have technologies allowing a simple firmware update, such as the PS3, to make good on that feature. Then when all players can handle the "advanced features", I ask you what advantage does HD-DVD hold then? The ONLY thing HD-DVD will have then is exclusivity from Universal. That, of course, can always be changed...

agent864:

while i agree we should support american made companies / products, it is false and disingenuous to say that just because Microsoft is in the HD-DVD camp that somehow HD-DVD is the more american choice. Thats just plain bull. Dell is in the Blu-ray camp and acutally manufactures computers. There are bluray disc pressing factories in the US, though the drives for both formats are manufactured overseas. IBM in partnership with Toshiba and Sony designed and manufactured the Cell chip, so by buying a PS3 you are supporting an american company. The global economy is so intertwined that the simplistic argument just doesn't hold any water.

juggs:

Well if you think about it the only thing that is keeping blu-ray afloat is the ps3. I personally don't want a console to play my movies on. Why should i spend that extra price for something that is more noisy. That is also prone to break after all we are talking about a sony product. Sony is a budget class name to me now just because i have tore through allot of there products in a year with them breaking. I personally will stick to dvd if hd-dvd goes under. I'm not funding corporations that changed the manufacture method so much to make more money that screw the consumer over. HD-DVD's will get cheaper once the mass market catches on. Bc they do use the same process as dvd. As for blu-ray they are totally different. Also the spec is not finalized as others have said why would i want to pay for a chevy cobalt when i could have the caddilac CTS-V for cheaper.

The battle has just begun and it looks better for Toshiba/Microsoft and the new CE companies that will be coming at the end of this year going into next. If you also look at it sony has kinda broken all the other blu-ray CE's legs on price. Sony offers the cheapest players that there competitors cannot do because sony is taking a loss on it. Because sony owns 3 movie studios so they make the money back through them as the other CE's do not.

Blu J:

Zap, that Wal-mart rumour was just that, rumour. It has since been proven false. Many other companies besides BJ's have announced further support of Blu-ray. What about BlockBuster? Since they announced that they will only carry Blu-Rays in 1700 of their stores nationwide, Netflix has seen their FIRST ever drop in subscriptions. Coincidence, right. Target is indeed only carrying Blu players in store over the holiday season. That was all that was ever said and announced, it was the media that got things all mixed up. That will make quite a difference in my opinion.
Mr. Millions, Greg. WOW! Who do you think holds patents, is THE SOLE manufacturer of HD-DVD players, and holds the most stock in HD-DVD. THE JAPANESE COMPANY TOSHIBA!! Microsoft doesn't have much at all to do with HD-DVD. Sony did indeed help to create Blu-Ray and is a major supporter, however they DO NOT own it. They, along with about 170 other companies, have stake in the format. Guess what else. That Cell chip in the PS3 that helps play those beautiful Blu-Rays, was co-developed by Sony, IBM, and....TOSHIBA. Sony does NOT have full control over the Blu-Ray format. They are simply a major proponent.

T.:

actually Greg, there's no one to blame but the AMERICAN COMPANIES within their all american greed decided to manufacture their goods abroad because it's cheaper and they make more out of it. You might as well stop buying things since 90% of the goods these days are imported.

the.round.peg:

Maybe Americans are buying Japanese is because Americans are making crappy products.

Look at American cars. Compared to Japanese cars.

Look at Xbox 360. Compared to the PS line. 360's quality is a DISGRACE. It's a typical American engineering and product.

I will buy American and support American when Americans start making some decent-quality products at reasonable prices.

Jocaju:

Juggs, Sony is a budget class name?? HAhahahaha. Are you dreaming? Sony probably have 100's of products, maybe some have a flaw here or there but we are talking about 100's of different products, I'll choose sony over other company any time. I own a PS3 and is a beautiful piece of hardware, is well made. My PSP have been dropped for few times now and still going strong, they're TV's are killer's, Camcorder's, digital cameras, etc. Bluray is more expensive to produce but is 50GB for double layer disc, that's massive storage for a disc and they could do up to 200GB.

For the millionaire Greg, Apple and Dell support Bluray, if I recall Apple and Dell are American companies or I'm wrong?

IHornack:

"Consumers are choosing blu-ray" BS. The consumers are not choosing anything. Does anybody know how small, how pathetic HD and Bluray sales are???


Big numbers, 100,000 sold! DVD is the Big Dog. The format war is good for the consumer and the formats. Improvements are constantly being made and the prices are coming down. If either company had a monopoly the software and hardware would be astronomical for a few years more.


This wishful thinking for one format only is asinine. The new HD formats are selling slow not because there are two of them, rather because DVD is not on its death bed and is still running strong. Think of poor Prince Charles the next gen of monarchs, he only gets to sit there because good ol' mom is running around very strong.


Not enough people have HD TVs to make a difference yet. And not enough are unhappy with DVD.

The big question to ask yourself is why are the Fan Boys so eager to do away with each others format? Well it has to be done now, I mean right now. Come 2008 its already too late, video industry projections for 2010,2011,2012 don't have a blu-ray world, it is a mix of both. And thats a good thing, if you doubt it imagine a world where Windows is the only option. What improvements would Microtheft ever make without Apple (or Linux)constantly usuring in new innovations.

If you want HD format sales to take off, stop telling people there is a war. Tell the the truth both formats are going to be around for awhile and both formats will have plenty of software, including (eventually) all studios producing movies for both. Remember the Studio's behind bluray were also against DVD when it came out.

Kratos:

@Greg: Do you think that buying HD DVD you're giving money to America? HD DVD is made by Toshiba, just another Japanese giant like Sony.

Oh and MS is American, but the Xbox 360 is not made in America, and neither are the HD DVD drives they sell. Just about every part eventually has its roots in the East.

If you want to support America, support Hollywood. Fox, Disney, MGM, Lionsgate, Paramount, Warner, Columbia/TriStar, they are backing Blu-ray.

This is reminiscent of the Betamax and VHS wars of the early 1980's... Sony is going to do everything to make sure it doesn't become 0-for-2.

Aaron:

I see all these crazy devices converging like iPod Videos and Blackberries, and that's why I bought a PS3. You get waaaay more for the money. This format war draws closer to the end with every PS3 sold, and there are millions upon millions of PS2 owners out there contemplating the upgrade. I think the Blu-ray sales volumes are really just warming up...

agent864:

juggs: "Why should i spend that extra price for something that is more noisy."

The ps3 is an extremely quiet, solidly built piece of hardware. Its an excellent blu-ray player and has gotten great reviews in that capacity, thank you very much.

Owen:

Every body's talking about ps3's and xbox 360's for watching movies when dvd's came out everyone didn't go out and buy a ps2 or an xbox to watch movies everyone has standalone players for watching movies sony's got target end caps and blockbuster and toshiba have bestbuy. Sony has more studio support but going threw the sellection it's mostly crap teeny movies ya i realy want to spend the money to watych stomp the yard or get the piret movies when i got them on dvd. hd dvd doesn't have a big selection but i give a big tumbs up for movies that are a direct transfer for the original imprinted (that mean's like 35mm film to you young people)film like payback the video quality riveles the digital transfers. but the real winner is the first one to the finish line but the big question that blu-ray and hd dvd are asking is what is the finish line . Blu-ray thinks it's game consels, hd dvd thinks it's low prices, both are betting on porn and jap porn is crap. Maybe one of them should take a page out of the book of scion(toyota) i remember when my dad cam home with a dvd player and a movie and the movie was titan A.E. and fox knew how to advertise for the movie to and that plus the dvd is what got use all hooked on to dvd so hd should try the same 300 was a awsome movie but it doisnt have what it takes to to blow people away no one makes movies like that any more it's all just cheap crap

Pat O:

Walmart will decide who wins this war, no one else has that ability.

jahosive:

I bought a PS3 at launch, and paid a premium to get it (meaning ebay - a steal at the time for $700 for a 20G). Love how much hype was there, and for what? To sit back almost one year after launch without owning a single game. To watch them continue to lower the price and upgrade the system without ever worrying about ANY content to please the early adopters. I bought it to get Lair (supposed to be a launch title). I've only rented two that had any interest for me because I am not a FPS fan, or most sports games. I know that means I shouldn't like the 360, but amazingly enough I bought it 2 weeks before the PS3. I now own 12 360 games, and will continue to buy any multiplatform on it because the PSN sucks really bad. What is this home crap, I want one button to find my friends, sorry I played WOW, and hated all the time spent running to meet people. Have fun, because that is waht everyone wanted right? I also play all my game systems (including the wii also) on a 133" high contrast dalite screen with a Panasonic 720p (AE 900U) projector. The HD-DVD's look better generally (not always the biggest Disney fan, but they make the best looking Blu Rays hands down). I really really hope that Toshiba, who have been upfront with their product and support for the product find a way to come back. I do fear they are on the losing side, but think they ended up there because of false promises by Sony to be able to sell PS3's much faster than actually happened.

Kendall:

How about letting customers decide? They clearly are, from NPD numbers since the start of the year that have Blu-Ray winning sales by percentages ranging from 64-74% of sales per week, according to NPD. And that's before a lot of blockbuster Blu-Ray titles come out going into Christmas, and before some of the larger titles that have already made an apperance on HD-DVD (like The Matrix, or Batman Begins) come out on Blu-Ray as well.

A secret not many people know is that Toshiba themselves admitted recently that dedicated HD-DVD players are starting to be outsold by Blu-Ray players (even without PS3's!). Toshiba announced they had 55% of the dedicated player market (no PS3), but just a few months earlier they had said that HD-DVD had 65% of the market. You don't drop in marketshare unless the other guy is outselling you, and that means that after the Sony standalone player price drop dedicated (non-PS3) players have been outselling HD-DVD units, even with those at a substantially lower price.

Kenzo:

If I hear one more drone say that TARGET is Bluray exclusive, I'll shoot myself. They're selling the Xbox HDDVD player as we speak. They're selling HDDVD disks (and selling out of 300) as we speak.

Bill:

I laugh every time I read an HD-DVD supporter saying "just wait and see" or "blu-ray is leading nothing". HD-DVD supporters remind me of George Bush supporters. Every day their numbers dwindle but there will always be stubborn ones who hang on to the bitter end.

Oh, and to you Sony haters: If you think there are a lot of you out there, your numbers are but a drop in the bucket compared to the Microsoft haters out there. If we just count those numbers, blu-ray has already won this war. Everything is over but the crying.

Pete:

All the Sony propaganda in the world doesn't change the fact that they are NOT winning any war.

faxt is that despite having all those PS3 game machines out there and probably bribed the studios for exclusivity (which, by the way is formally being investigated in Europe), the still have sold almost the exact same number of HD disks in Blu Ray as HD DVD. Based on the per-HD drive user counts, HD DVDV is actually winning the war by a landslide, In addition, the # of HD DVD players (as opposed to the game machines in both camps) is another HD DVD resounding lead and "win" in the war.

So Sony needs to shut up, get real, and admit their format is inferior (which it is for all sorts of technical reasons) and quit while they're behind. In the mean time, the serious HD fans and lovers out there have spoken their wallets and resoundingly support HD DVD in the form of players and more disks per player.

Wake up and smell the Sony spin machine.

Blu J:

Petey, just how is that HD-DVD is superior to Blu? I would really love to hear these delusions, as I'm sure most others that read them are sure to have a good laugh and a head shake. Consumers have indeed voted with their wallets, and what they're buying is all Blu my friend. How many players sold doesn't matter if nobody's buying the software. Take a good look at those Nielsen numbers, go ahead, I'll wait. It's the graph with all that Blu on it... http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom080507/index.php
Those numbers don't lie my friend, no matter how much you do to cover them up.
If you mean to tell me that M$ and Toshiba are not kicking any money to Universal to stay exclusive, then your delusions truly know no bounds.

Ian:

To be honest, I really love it when rabid fanboys come out of the woodwork. The article was pretty fair.

Facts:

1. HD-DVD has currently the cheapest stand alone
2. Blu-ray has three more exclusive studios

This is what people care about. Standardized specifications and storage space are not even a consideration to the average consumer.

What needs to be standardized is the quality of picture transfer. Universal and Sony have both sent inferior picture quality releases.

Regardless of it being right or wrong, Blu-ray has the current momentum. The question is whether HD-DVD will pull ahead during the holiday season because they are able to sell a lot of players. Is it unrealistic to assume Sony is working with a third-parties to develop a cheap stand alone that is 1.1 compliant? I mean, they know that is the only thing holding Blu-ray back.

Mike:

Are you all delusional? HD-DVD is INFERIOR technology. Say it with me... inferior. There's an increased demand for data storage with HD video and uncompressed audio nowadays. HD-DVD just won't be up to the task.

I'd be like pushing 3.5" floppies over CD-ROM.

Clayton:

Pete, last I heard those investigations ended with the conclusion that no one bought anyone off. As for HD-DVD being superior, that's simply untrue. Yes, the HD-DVD players have interactive features that Blu-Ray doesn't have yet. However that doesn't mean that Blu-Ray can't handle them. It just means WB can't figure out how to port them over like they've been porting over their transfers and whatnot. As for Sony not winning any war... What numbers are you ignoring that you think that statement is true? If Sony wasn't winning anything, why are the numbers fudged by Toshiba to make it look like they're winning in standalone player sales? It is very convient that they left those out. And it doesn't even matter if HD-DVD players are selling better, not as many people are using them to play HD-DVD's (hence the HD-DVD software sales being down so low). While I am at it, why not mention the actual software sales, Sony is leading by a 2:1-3:1 margin. How is that not winning? Anyone remember DIVX? Those players were actually purchased while no one was actually using them for Divx which is why Divx is gone. As for the person who said Blu-Ray isn't using film transfers, I am confused by what you were trying to say. But if I did understand it, I think you might have your facts way wrong. And for the person who was saying that movies from their HD-DVD player look better, they might need to get their eyes checked. WB has been using the exact same video for all their releases. Even the audio is identical (with the exception of when they don't include Dolby TrueHD on their blu-rays for whatever reason.)

I own both an HD-DVD and a Blu-Ray player (actually a PS3 and a Sony BDP-S1). I have had nothing but problems with HD-DVD, the movies freeze up, they don't load right, the audio doesn't match the picture, you can't change the reslution without stopping playback and losing your spot, you can't go into the setup without losing your spot. To say that Blu-Ray is inferior is outrageous. Sorry for my rant, but it concerns me that so many people have so many facts wrong. Or they're just doing it to give themselves hope that their format of choice wins.

Mystery:

How exactly is HD-DVD not up to the task? Discs already reach 50 GB, and even more in the future. BD may have more, but don't give us the HD-DVD is inferior crap--it isn't true. HD-DVD has more than enough space to hold HD.

Interested watcher:

I'm looking forward to replacing my existing standard definition upscaling DVD player with one that will do everything it can do (so it would be really nice to have DVD-Audio, SACD and Divx/Xvid) as well as playing high def DVD.

I want that at a sane price.

Right now that is so obviously closest with HD DVD.

I'm sorry but Blu-ray = PS3 and I'm never going to buy a mere game console for my a/v kit in my living room.

I'm also steering well clear of the additional so-called 'security' Blu-ray has.
Talk about anti-consumer.

sain:

I like how the Greg guy has disappeared after saying Americans should buy American products and blah blah. I hope he comes back to read that HD DVD is supported by Toshiba, Japanese, just like Sony....like so many people have already said.

Clayton:

Actually, HD-DVD's reach 30gb. They couldn't get their tripple layered (51gb) discs to work. So Blu-Ray is 50gb and HD-DVD is 30. There's a reason that Paramount wont be including HD audio tracks on HD-DVD or features in HD on the upcoming Face/Off. That reason is disc space. The whole "we don't need that much space for an HD movie" thing was false. Even with advanced video codecs you need more space for features and whatnot. Take a look at Blood Diamond which has compression blocks in it. There shouldn't be compression blocks on an HD movie. But it's due to disc size (and WB porting over HD-DVD's to Blu-Ray).

Blu J:

Mystery, HD-DVD DO NOT reach 50gigs. The highest they go as of now is 30gigs. There are no 50gig discs in sight whatsoever. 30gigs are simply not enough. Currently, the Blu-Ray edition of Spider-man 3 coming out Oct. 30, has such supreme quality that it is maxing out a 50gig disc. That is why there will be a second disc for exrta features. HD-DVD just cannot live up to that, those 50gig discs are not being tested and simply don't exist. All-the-while, Sony is currently testing and working with 75gig Blu-Rays to see if they can work with existing and future players. HD-DVD was outdated from the start.

me:

it's funny that the BDA is claiming the free movies shipped wiht the ps3 as "sales"...

it's even funnier watching people predict a winner with less than 2% penetration.

standalone players are the litmus test and hd dvd has that one locked. the ps3 is a game machine (regardless of what ken kuturagi says) therefore leaving the consumer to choose to buy a game or a movie. since console gamers use their consoles less than 40% of the time to watch movies, the numbers don't add up for bluray.

toshiba doesn't need to start a hard press on the marketing until prices get to be more reasonable...

walmart's being very quiet as well.... they will be key.

Blu J:

Yeah, funny how the HD-DVD camp claims all their free movie offers (and there are many) as sales too...
Yes, the REAL uphill battle is with DVD. However, neither HD format will win that battle if they're too busy fighting each other.
If standalone players for HD-DVD are selling so well, and PS3s don't count, why are software sales so much in favor of Blu-Ray? Is anyone going to address this question directly? Toshiba has had many many "free HD-DVDs with purchase of player" sales, and they count those as movies sold. The PS3 IS my Blu-Ray player, I play games as well, but I watch Blus quite a bit more than 40% of the time. When your busy with work and have two young kids, watching movies is about the only thing to do.
Wal-mart has not been that quiet. Those cheap chinese HD-DVD players for Wal-mart was a false report. What has been reported to be true is that Sony is coming out with a line of economy flat-panel TVs for Wal-mart. Now what would go well with this nice new Sony TV I just bought at Wal-mart? Well, we'll leave that to the customer to decide...

zet:

sony always claims what they can do or going to do, we are past that point, sony put your money where your mouth is. give the people what you promised them. it is a shame that so many loyal sony fans that bought ps3's are so disappointed with their purchase and all because sony is more interested in pushing the HD format war then worrying about gaming. its so clear to see that blu-ray movies are being produced at an astounding rate compared to ps3 games. so where does that leave ps3 owners, it leaves them buying movies instead of games because they have to justify spending their money on this albatross of a console that mostly plays blu-ray movies.
ps3 owners should be outraged. the sony executes thought that ps3 would sell no matter what even without games. so their strategy was to first try and secure the numbers for blu-ray camp in order to get backing from studios, blockbuster(lame), etc. before they worried about the gaming public. now that their numbers are so fluffed from all the ps3 owners buying movies, remember there are no games for them to enjoy, it shows their blu-ray sales up and now there wining the format war.
we all have heard sony stating that their product has a 10 year life cycle, its because they knew the first 1 to 2 years they would focus on movies and penetrating the high def market before they would focus on gaming. ps3 owners and the public have been hoodwinked, lead astray, bamboozled. however, sony didnt count on the wii's success and their buddies at microsoft. all the people that bash MS are just jumping on the ps3 band wagon. what sony doesnt want to realize is that 360 continues to outsell them when it is the ps3 that was suppose to have all the hype after their launch. it shows that their hype was short lived and just that, hype. MS is innovative and xbox live can not be touched by anything that sony copies from them. sony announces downloadable movies, ok sony how original, MS has been doing that for almost a year, do you they really think they will penetrate the market now. sony has six axis, well wii was doing it first. i think once sony gets their own original ideas they may get out of their slump. and people please dont think home is original, their has been online communities like that for years, so again lack of originality.
in summation, sony needs to do what they do best, and thats gaming. forget about an entertainment center, b/c sony cant touch MS as a true entertainment medium while they have xbox live, media center (which is awesome, if anyone has tried it), and soon "scene it" lol. games are their ticket in this battle and if they make good games, graphics wont matter, fun will.
**and thats the f-ng reason why we play video "games".**

Clayton:

I'm not sure if the word "litmus" applies there, but we'll just let that slide and move onto the next thing. Walmart isn't a key, but if it is, we will discuss that. Have you been to a Walmart lately? All of the ones that are able to carry HD movies have twice the selection of Blu-Ray's. Do you know why that is? In their stores they're seeing a 3:1 ratio of sales for BD vs HD-DVD. I know this because I've asked the managers. Also the 40% thing was for older gaming systems. Of course no one is going to want to use the PS2, Xbox, Xbox360 or any of those to play DVD's. But the numbers are way different with PS3's. Much higher. But I guess if you want to keep skewing the numbers, that's fine. Your the one that looks stupid and desperate.

Clayton:

I don't even know where to begin with you Zet. Yes, there aren't THAT many games out for the PS3, but there aren't nearly as many games being produced as there are movies. Believe it or not, there's Buena Vista, Lions Gate, Sony Pictures, Warner Brothers Pictures, and Paramount Pictures all releasing Blu-Rays. So of course there's going to be more Blu-Rays. I wanted a PS3 to actually watch Blu-Rays after hearing what a good job it does. And it's lived up to my expectations and I have no regrets. But why would you say that just because they didn't have games for it right away, someone would just automatically buy Blu-Rays? The thing also plays DVD's and upconverts them, why didn't DVD sales go up then? As far as the Blockbuster thing goes, that just happened and when did the PS3 come out? Last November? I think your view might be skewed quite a bit.

Blu J:

zet, dude, chill out. Sony is making their games. They are not the only company that makes games however. How about you hold all those other companies slow to make the games accountable as well. Where are their games at?
True M$ worked out a lot of kinks for Xbox Live on the original Xbox, so now they have a streamlined operation for that. To date, the 360 has SOLD APPROX. 6 to 7 million units. They have SHIPPED approx. 11 million. The PS3 has now SOLD approx, 4.5 million. The shift is well in effect.
And yes, the Wii is killing all it's competition.

zet:

blu j and clayton, understand that i am not a fan boy, nor do i care who wins. also i would not play movies off of a video game system, ill buy the stadalone unit, but thats just me.

the point that i am trying to make is what will make more money in the future, ps3 or hd format. actually probably neither, i think dwonloads will beat out software. but the answer is hd format, look at dvd ten years ago. so sony knows that people will buy the ps3 no matter what and it kills two birds. now you have that many blu ray players out there and because the games are limited and are ok at best, except for RFOM, which is kick ass, but again my opinion. hum????? what should i do w/ the expensive machine i bought, oh... i know, buy movies since the gaming software isnt there yet, at least not to the level and MS is.
now sony can say, oh look at our movie sales, they are sooo high, while MS says their game sales are higher, but in the meanwhile sony walks away with all the support and leads in the hd format battle.

if youve ever taking a marketing or business class youll see that this is a smart strategy. have a multi-platform console and limit goods for one of the forms in order to secure the more promising yet threatened one(hd format).

understand clayton that not all people who bought the ps3, bought it for the blu ray, rather they bought it to play games on it.

Clayton:

Right, but 90% of the people that bought a PS3 said they use it for movies too... Also, downloading doesn't seem to be very popular right now. The most recent numbers showed a massive decline in movie downloads. They've done psychological studies, and oddly enough (well not really odd), people tend to prefer having an actual physical product to put on their shelves. Also going to the store and opening up a wrapper makes people happy. Funny how that works. I personally do not download movies, I like to have all my movies on a shelf showing people what I have. I think there's a lot of other people out there that are the same way. Plus when people start looking at limitations of movie downloads and whatnot, they're going to go "why didn't I get an HD-DVD player or a Blu-Ray player?"

Ralf The Dog:

Why would anyone want to buy a stand alone Blue-Ray player when the PS-3 is the best on the market? I like the idea of having a Player that can have bugs fixed as well as new features added.

The Cell processor and the GPU in the PS-3 have quite a bit more horsepower than any other HD player. This should make it less likely to lock up or have other artifacts.

The PS-3 supports Deep color as well as 2160P. Why would I spend as much or more for a Blue-Ray player that does less?

zet:

clayton thats a valid point you have. people do feel all fuzzy and cuddly inside when they bring home something new. :)

Nick T:

Microsoft sold well over 6 million Xbox 360 consoles ever since its release. And now its 2007, so I would imagine that they’ve sold many more consoles. If Microsoft can try & sell the XBOX 360 HD DVD player attachment to even a fraction of the 6 million+ people, that alone would mean a massive victory for HD DVD.

People bought the PS3 to play games, people buy the XBOX 360 HD DVD player to watch HD movies.

Xbox 360 HD DVD player sales rise 1,000% - August 2, 2007
Completely sold out all over North America due to its $20 price cut & the 5 free movie incentive.

Blu-Ray negatives:
- Sony is arrogant & never plays by the book.
- A little ahead of its time IMO
- Blu-Ray is hardware defective, which later on Sony applied a software patch & somehow fixed the problem.
- Blu-Ray DVD’s are known to skip at times due to the over capacitated disks.
- Blu-Ray still lacks extra’s, mildly weaker in picture & audio quality vs. HD DVD.
Care to add a few more?

Take Care,

Blu J:

Nick T...Are you on drugs? Or do you just like to lie. Maybe a Sony hater? The 360 add on did not sell out. The 1000% sales spike lasted two days, on amazon. How exactly is Sony arrogant? And good god I hope they don't play by micro$ofts book.
-Saying it is ahead of it's time implies that it is by far superior to it's contemporaries.
-You say the hardware is defective, but then they fixed it? I'm lost, how is that a negative.
-They are NOT known to skip, totally false accusation.
-They lack similar interactive features that are on their conterparts (most claim to not care as the movie is most important), however they are NOT weaker in PQ & AQ. In fact, because Blu can support a higher bandwidth and greater space to the transfer, most movies have the ability to look better on Blu-ray (although most people say they look about the same).
What else you got?

Blu J:

By the by, the 360 has not sold 6 million units in its first year. They have sold about 7 million TO DATE, been out since Nov. '05. They have SHIPPED many more than that, but have only SOLD approx. 7 million. The PS3, out since Nov. '06 a whole year later, has SOLD approx. 4.5 million units. Not even a year. Who's really doing better?

I agree with the first post by JackBauer.

This war is good for the consumer. We're getting better prices, and better product because both companies are pushing each other. We're still early on. There is no harm in seeing this continue further into the future.

JB:

I don't know why people believe the PS3 is a great Hi def player. Look at the link below to see the tech/specs and performance of the PS3.

The data shows the PS3 failing 8 out of 22 testing areas being the lowest of the players in this particular benchmark. The Toshiba XA2, which is now simular in price only failed in 1 area. The PS3 is even failing tests that the upconverting players are passing which don't even have HD capability.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133

Blu-Ray & HD DVD are both great, but in the end...money taks and B.S. walks. The cheaper format will ultimatly win because we live in a time where production and cost of manufacturing has to be cheap and volume has to be high.

As for now, A small part of me is thankful for both formats. Can you imagine the prices we would be paying if there were only one! And if you think about it, Which ever player you have, it will eventually be obsolete anyway...and probably much quicker than you think. But you will always be able to enjoy what you have bought and collected as you move on to something new to have all kinds of fun and grief over! Which by that time, in the future, you would be buying something else no matter what you have because we always love to go forward, no matter where we are.

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