CBS a long considered conservative network, are you joking? Are any of the major three networks considered conservative? Mr. Hibberd, these so called "reality shows" have warped your perspective on what constitutes conservative programming.

Won't the kids simply rescind their contracts? How could a judge possibly affirm the contracts?

CBS conservative ???????? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING.

SOUNDS LIKE A FREE LUNCH FOR A NEW MOVIE SET.

CBS conservative ???????? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING.

SOUNDS LIKE A FREE LUNCH FOR A NEW MOVIE SET.

Where were the PARENTS? Every last one of them should be investigated by their hometown authorities for CHILD ENDANGERMENT for going along with this!

This is the rankest form of EXPLOITATION, and all child welfare groups and parent organizations in the country should mount a MASSIVE boycott of all sponsors of this sick program. Shame on CBS (but they have none) and on the producers (they have even less) for this abuse. Why not just go all the way and start a new show called "Salt Mines" and put the little tykes to work in a hole in the ground?

Send Katie Couric there...

It definitely doesn't sound like a "summer camp" like the maker said but what's the real damage done here?? Sounds like they went about doing their show as responsible as they could and the kids probably learned more out on their own than sitting in a classroom. Just my two cents

Frank and George --

You misunderstand the author.

Read it again: he doesn't mean "conservative" politically; he means "conservative" as in "unwilling to take risks."

This is wrong on so many levels that my brain is spinning. Wrong all the way from who thought of it to who will watch it. Of course, I'm sure 'someone' will be watching. People lead such pathetic lives that they leap to view someone that just 'may' be more pathetic than themselves. Not to mention the parents. It's not hard to imagine finding parents that would part with their kids for two months straight. Like I said...pathetic.

kids are smarter than adults anyway. maybe they should be given a chance to govern. they couldnt be any worse than anyone currently in charge.

CBS... Conservative?

Dan Rather? Mapes? Tex Air National Guard memos?

Fake but accurate?

See? BS?

Conservative?

Ha ha!

Hah hah hah!

Bwah - Hahhahahahahahahahah!

[wiping away tear] hoo, that's a good one.

Shah -- and I heard Pravda and Izvestia were Conservative too.

If the kids didn't want to be there, they wouldn't have been there. You can't get kids to do a darn thing they don't want to do.

CBS doesn't have an army of lawyers for nothing. I'm sure some poor first year associate went over every ream of paper making sure the i's were dotted and the t's crossed.

Boycotts work really well. We've seen how well it worked with the racially split teams on Survivor.

CBS dumps kids into a ghost town ...

I always thought that was how Madrid, New Mexico got restarted. Hopefully, CBS will take the kids out of Bonanza City before things get out of hand, and we have another Madrid.

Honestly, kids are stronger than we give them credit for. This is just the thing they WANT!!! Anyone who says otherwise is part of the new-order PC movement that says all aspects of our lives should be governed and persecuted at every minute step. Get over it, people! These kids are NOW depressed to be back to your "protective" reality!! They're depressed because they now have to return to live in the increasingly oppressed U.S.A.!! This country becomes more oppressed every day!!!! It's embarrassing!!! It'll be interesting to watch children outsmart adults, for once!

Brad,
Are you serious? Your mind is so warped by the media, it's not even funny. You are a fair weathered, front running, band wagon, liberal.
Your going to agree with whatever the media tells you. If they started telling you Bush was doing a great job, you'd change your tune in a heartbeat! 8 to 15 yr old kids outsmarting adults? Please Brad, give me a break. 40 days is drop in the bucket compared to what most people have been through. How many would last after a long period of time....SAY 6 MONTHS? You kook! This is just another show, smarter than a 5th grader, trying to make you feel stupid. Reading comments like yours solidifies everything we believe as Americans. Go watch CNN or MSNBC and plagerize you poser!

INCREDULOUS! How can a major TV station even work up the nerve to imagine a TV show like this, let alone the gall to set it in production. I find this show to be offensive in it's very nature!

Sounds like a lot of whining about what might happen. Kids might just need to learn the lessons these did in NATION. Might just have kids that can think and act for themselves and that make good decisions. There are sure a lot of them making questionable decisions - even with parents that do the thinking for them or those who would never let their chilldren be in any sort of "dangerous" situation. Seens to me, when I was a kid we did a lot of dangerous things and lived - in fact flurished.

When I first saw the ad for this show I was appalled and shocked that parents would allow their children to participate.

For one thing what parent in their right mind would hand over their child to strangers for 40 DAYS!

"The kids loved it," one crew member said. "Some have been depressed returning to normal life."

And when they decide to be mean to each other, they’re horrible. You’re seeing kids at their absolute best and worst."

No kids were harmed my foot. And what about the fallout once the show airs; good or bad!

These kids were on set for 24 hours a day for 40 days. That 19 cents an hour.

Kids do NOT know what's best for them. That's why adults are SUPPOSE to look out for them and why we have child labor laws.

Grissom: I'm getting the impression you don't have kids. They wouldn't be there if they didn't want to be there??? Adults get themselves into situations they don't know how to get out of all the time. How is a kid suppose to find a way out when all these adults (including their parents) think this is a good idea. Did ya ever hear of peer pressure?

I agree with Victory, they all should be investigated.

Did I mention I'm APPALLED!

I'll bet these kids had a BLAST!!! They got an invaluable education on Economics, Politics, Food Service, and Service to OTHERS. They learned myriad lessons of life, too, many of which won't present themselves for years to come.
As far as CBS being conservative. I am Conservative, yet I understand the knee-jerk replies. I agree that CBS is conservative in the risks they take, NOT their politics.

Leave these kids alone...

I can not believe that the parents of these children let this happened. I have an 8 year old daughter and I would never let her do something like this. The hours these kids were worked, the dangers they went through, and missing school. This was all for what $5000 each and a bit of fame? What a joke. It is not worth the school they missed and the chance that they could get hurt bad. What were the parents thinking? The children that were in Harry Potter were treated a lot better. They could only work a few hours a day and had school too.
CBS should be banned for pulling this stunt. The reality shows have gone too far. It is one thing to do one on adults surviving but with children.... What were these people thinking. I bet that if any of them had children that they would not put them in this show. The people that made this show should be put in their place and see how long they can take it.

I think this is terrible. If we as a society start letting our children run around trying to take care of themselves, then what sort of futre does that leave for them?

We need to make sure to keep the children safe from the evils out there. If we don't tell them the things to fear and watch out for, they're bound to get hurt. It makes me cringe to think about all the negative and harmful stuff that makes its way to the tv that my kids see every day. Now I got to to explain to them how these kids are able to live like that, with no grown up in charge to tell them what to do and how to be? Thanks a lot CBS.

That's just it. The kids aren't going to be left alone. The taping of the show may well have been fun for them. It'll be the weekly poking and prodding by critical adult fans this fall that won't be so fun.

So, child labor is back at long last! Yup, definitely sounds like a "compassionate conservative" wet dream to me.

No longer do we need to go to China to have our consumer goods produced by children paid mere pennies per hour. Now we can bring those jobs back to America where they belong.

Happy Days Are Here Again!

This is child abuse and exploitation of minors.

Oh quit fretting and wringing your hands, you ninnies. Your outrage is silly. This is a dream come true for every kid involved... what is wrong with letting a very few lucky children have an experience that is both totally unique and cool, while also being essentially very well supervised and under constant surveillance and with the very best medical attention ready at a moment's notice - you can't honestly think CBS was going to put kids in genuine jeopardy, did you? Get over yourselves and your righteous indignation. You're just jealous you never got to do anything half as cool when you were young. And yes, I am a father, and yes, I'd let my boy go on a show like this. In a heartbeat. Man, how have we got so sissified?

I agree that this is "child abuse and exploitation of minors."

Like others here, I ask, where were the parents of these children? It appears they accepted $5,000. for the use of their children and some time off from being parents -- which only affirms that this was child abuse and the exploitation of minors (by all involved, CBS, "physicians" in attendance at CBS' expense I'm sure [meaning, they were employed to certainly look out for CBS under guise of looking out for the children, or at least it's suggested it was so] and of course by the parents of these children).

CBS obviously used New Mexico because of the loophole cited in this article, which also suggests they made conscious attempt to exploit (aware that what they were doing was forbidden elsewhere).

And, of course children do NOT "know what's good for them," if they did, there would be no stories such as this, nor no other exploitation of children, most of it far worse than here.

In fact, the human brain is not yet mature until the early twenties -- continuing to develope until then. Children need the guidance and protection of adults and there is certainly abundance information available by now to explain why.

CBS sounds no different here than any manufacturer of child exploitation materials. As in, they're equally disgusting as the rest who exploit children "for entertainment" purposes.

Next step is to really push the envelope and put kids in the ultimate fighting championship.

I would have done anything as a kid to have been on a show like this. It's nowhere near child abuse, and using that term here cheapens its true meaning. As well, you're crazy if you think these kinds were honestly left alone to fend for themselves

This show looks great and these kids were in no danger. They got a tax free stipend, they aren't acting, and they are learning to deal with life. I wish Paris Hilton would have been on this show as a kid. The one thing besides the church that has been marred in this country is the scouts. This show is both educational to these kids and teaches them important values.

These 40 kids are going to wind up being the 40 owners of CBS. Good for them. If CBS is smart, they'll each get a few million dollars a pop.

Stranded kids? Sort of want to see the show now

So.....

The kids got 5 grand for 24/40....being filmed in a fake ghost town? And how much money is CBS going to earn from this little exercise in parental stupidity?

Who is looking after the rights of the kids?

I think the biggest insult is the fact the author of the article calls CBS conservative.I do not think the people at CBS would appreciate tht,and quite frankly as a evil conservative myself i dont appreciate being associated with them either..

I think this show sounds great, one of the few (and i mean few) reality shows that sounds worth while.

Work my ass... I'm sorry but when I was a kid I mowed lawns, washed cars, and vacuumed apartments for cash. not to mention i kept up with my chores and sometimes cooked. And I wasn't even a farm boy, many of my friends were, and they would work 16 hours a day during harvest, driving combines and such for their parents for cash, all under the table and well before they where 16. And they nor I complained, but wanted the chance. Too many kids these days have it too easy, loafing around their suburban homes playing video games 10 hours a day and complaining if they have to make their bed, God forbid! Kids don't hardly know the value of a dollar these days. And if you think this is some old timer writing about how it use to be in the good ol' days, think again, I'm only 25 years old.

Heck, when I was a kid, I would have loved to of had this opportunity. How many times did you wish you could have been the adult when you were a kid? Or are you too old to remember that far back? How many of you wish that you didn't have to listen to your parents at some point? Be in charge of making the rules, finding out was responsibility is really like. This would have been a heck of an experience... good or bad, either way a heck of an experience.

The only thing I have against it is they only paid $5,000 per kid... How much money will they make off of this show? on the other hand, $5,000 for a little over a months worth of 'work,' not bad for a nine year old. I wasn't making that kind of money until I was 17.

So kids being left alone with no parents ... being forced to grow up in stressful situations before there time ... sounds like CBS took a page off of Michael Jackson's ranch.

I bet the ratings will be low. Anyone remember Brat Camp? It was on ABC for one season. Boring...

CBS conservative? Not any more than the Pope being Jewish. But more to the point, any network who spins their intent to "run a camp" when in fact they are filming a show is pathetic, and should pay the price with poor ratings.

Oh wait a minute, they have Katie Couric... never mind.

Hahaha, CBS isn't conservative, its NEOCON and it supports the empire while it has been destroying our Constitutional republic. It has covered up lies, lied on programing that was suppose to be news, and hid facts that the American people needed to know but didn't because of CBS and as a result there are 4,000 dead American boys and girls and hundred of thousands of Iraqi civilians.

Please, don't insult us conservatives by lumping this piece of corporate garbage with us. ABC, Disney and CBS are the worst offenders next to CNN for propoganda and disinformation. We all see it now. I haven't watched either of those networks for anything since 9-11 and their pathetic coverage and replays of the actual events of that day. You literally have to go to the net to see replays of what happened on 9-11 because we never saw them on CBS, NBC or CNN.

I will never trust them again or ever use the products that are advertised on their stations. I have managed to boycott them for a long time, since their news dept gave up being this nations 4th column.

I had no idea I was missing such patheticly sick and stupid programming. Aaah, for the good ole days of real meaty programming that stimulated instead of anesthetized the public.

lol at CBS being conservative. I don't think there has been an episode of 60 min that I did not hear how evil some conservative political philosophy or conservative person was.

Next youre going to tell me that Survivor (thoughts of nakedness and Richard tucking his thingy between his legs) and Big Brother, etc... are conservative?

Katie Couric a conservative? Dan Rather a conservative? Interesting philosophy.

Fidel Castro is a conservative too right?

Jolly good. I have always been amazed at how resilient and independent children can be if their parents would only let them. Learning to be independent is a big part of growing up, after all. Maybe if parents see this show they will stop trying to protect their children from everything... then who knows, maybe the next generation wont consist 25 year old children that haven't moved out of their parents house yet.

endangerment? please. your hysterical tone makes me wonder if your parents didn't cripple you the same way you are surely crippling your children.

Another despicable example of Hollywood wackos trying to indoctrinate children viewers into watching their stupid reality shows.

There's no way I would let my child do this. Miss school, live among only other children for a month and not have me there? No way. I have a 7 and 11 year old, and would miss thenm TERRIBLY. Children need their families' guidance and to be let out of that for a month to work and be filmed with no authority figure? My children mean to much to me to farm them out for $5,000.

John (Posted by John | July 15, 2007 10:43 PM ), yes folks know that CBS is conservative in "not taking risks", but following the postings by everyone, can't you see that people hate CBS (and therwfore do noit watch their shows NOTR wtach their sponsers ads)?

So CBS may not be "conservative" after all in not taking risks, I think it is a BIG risk to year-after-year aleinate a large section of the population (poltical conservatives) by hiring and leading extreme left wing liberal views.

Of course you will probably just dismiss me (and all the others who commented) as a right wing exteremist, missing our point entirely. But then again, liberals really do not want anyone else that does not share their own views to have equal (or any) rights, especially the right to comment (free spoeech and all).

The prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are treated better then what these kids had to go thru! I thought we had child labor laws!

Where's Geraldo when ya need him?

For the last time, conservative not meaning politically... man, there's more than one definition to word. And that's not even the point of the article.

Tom, how do you know how the kids were treated, comparing it to Guantanamo Bay is ridiculous. these kids weren't detained for life. And just cooking your own food isn't that tough... try it sometime.

I would have loved to have done this as a kid. And for all of you who think this is some major crime... you're all a bunch of overprotective parents, and I'm glad I did have you as parents. I hate to see what your kids turn out to be. Either relying on you for every decision they make when they are 30 years old (which you would probably like, right?), or the complete opposite which would be to rebel and move as far away from home as possible and call you once a month.

I think by calling CBS conservative they are talking about economics and risk taking not politics. The big three CBS, ABC, and NBC are traditionally risk averse.

It's too early in the AM for me to get into their political stances (I hate getting mad early in the day).

Its a shame more people don't convince their kids to get out and do some form of work, yard work for example in which most of you overweight and lazy people are hiring illegal immigrants to do then complaining about that. Try getting your fat kids outside and off the pc/console/text crazed binge they are on now. Who knows, they might learn some values and lose some weight. Some of you see to want your kids to grow up to soft, pudgy lumps of dough that can't think for themselves. There are a lot of lessons in life that cannot be taught in a classroom or in some of the examples posted above, apparently the parents are incapable of teaching and now they are pissy. Talk about going off what the media has to say, all you have to go off of is one article and already you are jumping up and down claiming its an outrage and CBS should be shot. LMAO Hard Work is the devil, work as little as possible, seems to work for some of you lardasses.

The question should be, how much of the $5000 will the kids actually see ? Stupid parents have probably already decided which big screen tv to purchase with the money !

Brett - I think as a teenager, I agree with you. As an 8 year old I would not. In my state, you would be neglectful if you left your child under 12 alone for even a minute. Though I don't agree with the rule, 8 year olds still need a responsible person around. I queston including children so young. It would take a special 15 year old to "parent" an 8 yr old for 40 days & nights while fulfilling their adult roles in the town. I think its an interesting concept, and am anxious to see it.

It would be hard to be on your own like that & return home to live under mom & dad's rules. Do you remember Homestead? A pioneer family experiment run very similarly on public tv? I seem to recall that the people in that were also shocked (depressed?) to return to reality. I think that reaction is normal.

why are people so hysterical over this? what is the big deal, anyway? i think we have evolved into a nation of fat sissies....kids can't play in the woods, bike long distances, have a break from the ever-present parental eye, parental cell phone....sure let''s keep them in the house in front of the computer for hours a day, let their bodies evolve into flacid mush...i'm sure what they see on the internet/tv is more damaging than the 40 days at the ranch, outdoors, working chores, assuming responsabilities, having an ADVENTURE. those that are complaining sound like such sissies! yuck! no wonder some of these kids are depressed coming back to their "safe" "vacant" lives.

why are people so hysterical over this? what is the big deal, anyway? i think we have evolved into a nation of fat sissies....kids can't play in the woods, bike long distances, have a break from the ever-present parental eye, parental cell phone....sure let''s keep them in the house in front of the computer for hours a day, let their bodies evolve into flacid mush...i'm sure what they see on the internet/tv is more damaging than the 40 days at the ranch, outdoors, working chores, assuming responsabilities, having an ADVENTURE. those that are complaining sound like such sissies! yuck! no wonder some of these kids are depressed coming back to their "safe" "vacant" lives.

Earnest, are you out there somewhere? Come rescue this network!

Hey Cranky Media Guy: Actually the Chinese have labour laws that no one under 16 years of age can work in a factory and the laws are strictly enforcced both by the government as the inspectors can demand your papers at any time and offending plants can be fined, jailed, or executed depending upon the severity. Also independent firms audit the factories from Wal-Mart, Target, Marks & Spencer, and Disney to make sure all codes of conduct and no child labour are at the plants.

Looks like CBS is way behing the Chinese on this issue.

BTW: I remember working paper routes, telemarketing for newspapers, & mowing lawns/shoveling snow/walking dogs all under the age of 16 and no harm came to me. So child labour is not the issue, it's the removal of parental supervision that is a bit disturbing.

Tsk tsk CBS, and that $5000 bucks is a downright shame!! Im surprised you didnt charge them for the privilege.

Greedy people...

Im sure the kids had a wonderful time but that doesnt excuse the network for taking complete advantage.....

I am so ashamed and embarrassed for these lowlife people who run the TV industry...

I find it amazing that this feedback shows the state of education (or lack thereof) of some people in this country.
"Conservative" (and "liberal" for that matter) happens to have more than one meaning.
Maybe the Drudge Report readers, redirected from that blog to this one, need to look at their dictionaries more often.

This is a really poorly written article that needs some major editing. The writer seems to have thrown together a bunch of random quotes. And to call CBS "conservative" is a bit of a joke. He probably means that it takes a more conservative approach to prime time entertainment programming, but that is why this whole thing needs a good editor and needs to be rewritten.

It also needs some objective research--it sounds more like a CBS press release than a well-researched report where New Mexico officials and US government officials explain how this producer got away with this. And to not have parents there for 40 days--the writer should simply ask these parents, "What were you thinking?"

Instead of praising the sneaky ways of CBS, the journalist would dig deep and uncover the lows the network went to in order to circumvent laws and produce a show that ethically abuses kids.

You know when I think television has hit rock bottom (springer, maury, fear factor, big brother), some net exec always finds a way to dig deeper. Years ago, when I saw the movie 'Network"(and later, "Running Man"), I thought they were preposterous. I thought no network would do such things. I was wrong. They have and will. There are loads of hell-bound cretins sitting in network offices. Oh, there are also loads of cast-members' parents who deserve to be bitch-slapped for saying yes to this moronic idea!

I agree with others here that "work" for older children isn't a problem but THIS situation WAS a problem.

I had jobs from about the age of twelve, thirteen on...the usual jobs like babysitting and eventually at about sixteen, helping my friend's farmer father in the summertime (fulltime) with canning their crops (but I worked seven hours a day, reported the income, got a lunch break, was supervised, went home every evening and returned to work in the morning, driven to and fro by an adult if not a parent).

The SITUATION here is very poor, what CBS arranged and how it was arranged. It does call to mind the childrens' parents abilities because I know no one who would let any child of theirs go through this experience. If a "camp," then they weren't there to "work" and should not have "earned" this pitiful exploitive wage. Whoever the parents involved are are as creepy in my view as CBS is both non-conservative but liberal, and deplorably lacking in ethics.

It is apparent that most of the commenter's here have no clue of what it takes to film something like this. The kids were out numbered 3 to 1 by film crew, directors, safety, riggers and so forth. They were never alone or out of sight of an adult. This show is nothing more than 40 kids in a rustic and dusty park. It is about as real as a Harry Potter movie.

CBS (AND the childrens' parents) also LIED to the children, misled them with a "wink/wink" method that set a very, very terrible example for the children involved: "it's a camp but you'll earn money and be expected to work dawn to midnight..."

This whole situation wasn't about children working within their means AS children in some part-time jobs to make extra money and earn experience, it was about business exploiting children for entertainment. I think what CBS has done is truly despicable here.

Television is dead. People are on their computers.

Y'all get over it. Good, bad or indifferent, these kids learned something...the money may have, ok, probably was enticing in the beginning, but in the end, they learned something. They learned something about themselves, about the other 39 kids they were with, they learned their personal weaknesses and their personal strengths. That experience in itself will probably make or break them for the rest of their lives. And THAT is a good thing in this day and age.
I say, "Good for them."
Wish this had been around when I was "young(er)" and when my son was that age.
I know it would have made quite a difference in both our lives.....

I saw some statistics in USA Today a couple of weeks ago that shocked me.

Only 53% of of teens pay for "at least some" of the gasoline for "their" cars.

Only 41% pay for fines (tickets, parking or driving).

Only 29% pay for vehicle damage.

Only 27% pay for maintainence.

Only 20% pay for insurance.

I repeat, "at least some" of these expenses.

As I read the posts on this article, it is painfully obvious that parents as a whole do not give a rip about their kids and their growing up to be responsible adults. All todays parents seem to care about is if little Johnny of Susie is comfortable and happy. If they have X-boxes, TV's in their rooms, their own cell phone, designer clothes, if they get "enough" sleep, if they "interact" enough with other kids, that they "play" every organized sport known to man, the list goes on and on.

We have created a generation of spoiled brats that have no concept of personal responsiblity. A generation that thinks the world is owed to them on a silver platter. A generation that doesn't have a clue on how to survive in this world.

This stems back to lazy parents who can't say no and who refuse to make their kids carry their own weight.

I had not heard of this new show until I read this article. But it sounds to me as if it is a good thing and maybe something that a whole generation of kids would benefit from participating in.

There is no such thing as "reality" television; it is all staged. This is the early promotion for another "reality" show and people are already starting to bite. The parents of these kids knew where they were because they were part of the hiring of these little actors. The $5K, etc., is all part of the false "reality>"

As this article mentions there were medical staff available, producers, camera men, and how many other acting as a safety net? Anyone who thinks that these kids were ALONE is uninformed.

What if you remove kids from their parents, video games, tv, comforts and normal lives for 40 days and they learn something about themselves. They learn that they are strong enough to get through tough times. They learn that not everyone shares the same beliefs that they do. They learn to appreciate what they have.

I think it's an interesting show that will change those kids (for the better)

Sounds like the original Star Trek episode Miri in which the children were in charge. Except of course here CBS juiced these kids like oranges to squeeze a Bonanza profit.

I agree that these kids were given the opportunity of a lifetime, were well-supervised, and enjoyed every minute of it. I would let my daughter do this in a second, despite the fact that I would miss her. Why should "missing" your kid factor into the decision anyway? That's just being selfish. I do think these kids (and their families) should have gotten paid more, though, given the likely profitability of the show.

As a child my parents would have been thrilled to get rid of me for one month knowing I would make $5K for my future. That is more than I make right now at 41. I could pay off my car, knock down my house payment and even have some left over to pay my TAXES. I had a paper route at age 10. I then started my own lawn care business at age 11 .... working with power equiptment etc ... Too many kids have no clue what real work is and I hope at least a few of those in the show carry on to accomplish something in their life. As for me, I will not watch it as I rarely watch TV anyway. I have other things to do.....

As a child my parents would have been thrilled to get rid of me for one month knowing I would make $5K for my future. That is more than I make right now at 41. I could pay off my car, knock down my house payment and even have some left over to pay my TAXES. I had a paper route at age 10. I then started my own lawn care business at age 11 .... working with power equiptment etc ... Too many kids have no clue what real work is and I hope at least a few of those in the show carry on to accomplish something in their life. As for me, I will not watch it as I rarely watch TV anyway. I have other things to do.....

They gave this show to "Jericho's" time slot?!?!?

What a great experience for these kids!
No one hurt, no